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Beowulf
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« on: December 18, 2009, 01:39:11 PM »

Part 1   Jeremiah/Chronicles/Ezra & Commentary

For anyone familiar with C.T. Russell and the Watchtower Society, they are aware of specific date setting in attempts to promote their interpretation of bible prophecy  fulfillment and how it relates, primarily, to themselves.

With the following information, I will show how history itself goes hand in hand with the fulfillment of  bible prophecy.

So, to understand clearly how the Bible Students and Jehovah’s Witnesses come to their interpretation, let us consider their own words.

Studies in Scripture Vol. 2 B80: C.T. Russell states: “With these facts before us, we readily find the date for the beginning of the Gentile Times of dominion; for the first year of the reign of Cyrus is a very clearly fixed date --both secular and religious histories with marked unanimity agreeing with Ptolemy’s Canon, which places it B.C. 536.” He then adds 70 years to come up with a B.C. 606 date for the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. ( I am unaware of any cited sources to verify this statement. In fact, when I’ve asked bible students to provide just one secular verifiable source, they have not been able to do so thus far. But it is really a moot point when they fail to recognize that there are two distinct parts to the prophecy.)

The WTS (watchtower society) shows, on page 480 in Insight on the Scriptures, book 2, that they use The Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles (1975), Ancient Near Eastern Texts, and B.M. (British Museum) Cuneiform 21946 to establish a B.C. 537 date to work with.  70 years added here comes to B.C. 607 for the destruction of Jerusalem.
(The one thing they fail to mention, is that each of these sources clearly state that Jerusalem’s destruction was not 607 but rather, 587. How can that be?)

Let’s consider the prophecy itself. We will see a picture unfold and realize there is both a prophecy concerning Babylon, and another which applies specifically to the Jews, their land, and the temple.

Byington:  Jer. 29:10 “For Jehovah says, As soon as Babylon has had a full seventy years, I will look after you and keep my good word for you, bringing you back to this place.”

NWT: Jer. 29:10  “For this is what Jehovah has said, ‘In accord with the fulfilling of seventy years at Babylon I shall turn my attention to YOU people, and I will establish toward YOU my good word in bringing YOU back to this place.”

A bible translation Liberty? Regarding Jer 29; 10, the Hebrew word "le" in the NWT is translated "at". It can be translated "at" but its most common meaning is "for". I have checked a lot of Bibles and except for the NWT and the KJV, every one that I have read says "for Babylon". One even says "Babylonias seventy years." All these translations expressed the same thought, namely that the seventy years refer to the Babylonian supremacy, not to the Jewish captivity. As soon as the 70 years toward Babylon had been fulfilled, the Jews would begin their return, not; the Jews would return after spending 70 years at Babylon. Scripture does not say the Jews would be in exile for 70 years.

To see the difference, consider the following scriptures.

Jer. 25:8,9 8 “Therefore this is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘“For the reason that YOU did not obey my words, 9 here I am sending and I will take all the families of the north,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “even [sending] to Neb•u•chad•rez'zar the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land and against its inhabitants and against all these nations round about; and I will devote them to destruction and make them an object of astonishment and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite

Jer. 25:10-12   10 “I will banish from them the sounds of joy and gladness, the voices of bride and bridegroom, the sound of millstones and the light of the lamp. 11 This whole country will become a desolate wasteland, and these nations will serve the king of Babylon seventy years.
 12 "But when the seventy years are fulfilled, I will punish the king of Babylon and his nation, the land of the Babylonians, for their guilt,
" declares the LORD, "and will make it desolate forever.”


Jer. 28:14 “” 14 For this is what Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, has said: “A yoke of iron I will put upon the neck of all these nations, to serve Neb•u•chad•nez'zar the king of Babylon; and they must serve him. And even the wild beasts of the field I will give him.”’”

We see here a Babylonian supremacy not on just the Jews, but the surrounding nations as well.

When did this exile, vassalage, and 70 year judgment of Babylon end?

2 Chron. 36:20-23
  He carried into exile to Babylon the remnant, who escaped from the sword, and they became servants to him and his sons until the kingdom of Persia came to power. 21 The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah.
 22 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia,
in order to fulfill the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah, the LORD moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and to put it in writing:
 23 "This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:
       " 'The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. Anyone of his people among you—may the LORD his God be with him, and let him go up.'

We see the 70 year judgment was fulfilled when the kingdom of Persia came to power, the first year of Cyrus. It was at this time Cyrus decreed the Jews freedom to return to their land and build the temple (B.C.539).

But we also have to consider verse 21 “The land enjoyed its sabbath rests; all the time of its desolation it rested, until the seventy years were completed in fulfillment of the word of the LORD spoken by Jeremiah.”

Can we say the Sabbath’s were unfulfilled because the Jews returned early? No. The land was yet to be cultivated and harvested. The Jews did not begin their return until  B.C. 537 less than two years after Cyrus made the decree, and then only a remnant made the first journey.


Points from Ezra:

“The majority of Jews living in Babylon were prosperous and assimilated and unwilling to undertake the hardship and danger of moving back to their ruined homeland. Ezra tells us that 42,360 Jews chose to return plus 7,3000 servants, and 200 singers; 736 horses, 245 mules, 435 camels, and 6,720 donkeys. (2:64-66). With them went some of the sacred temple vessels, 1000 basins of gold, 1000 basins of silver, 29 censers, 30 bowls of gold, 2,410 bowls of silver, and a thousand other (major) vessels - totaling 5,469 in all (1:9-11).”

“The journey is 530 direct miles, but about 900 miles by road and took about 4 months, (7:8-9). The route was dangerous because of robbers and marauding groups. After the Jews arrived in Jerusalem they "gathered as one man"  Then arose Jeshua (the high priest) the son of Jozadak, with his fellow priests, and Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel with his kinsmen, and they built the altar of the God of Israel, to offer burnt offerings upon it, as it is written in the law of Moses the man of God. They set the altar in its place, for fear was upon them because of the peoples of the lands, and they offered burnt offerings upon it to the LORD, burnt offerings morning and evening. And they kept the feast of booths (the 15th to the 22nd day of the seventh month), as it is written, and offered the daily burnt offerings by number according to the ordinance, as each day required, and after that the continual burnt offerings, the offerings at the new moon and at all the appointed feasts of the LORD, and the offerings of every one who made a freewill offering to the LORD. From the first day of the seventh month they began to offer burnt offerings to the LORD.

But the foundation of the temple of the LORD was not yet laid. So they gave money to the masons and the carpenters, and food, drink, and oil to the Sidonians and the Tyrians to bring cedar trees from Lebanon to the sea, to Joppa, according to the grant which they had from Cyrus king of Persia. (Ezra 3:2-7)
As is always the case, the work of God in the world always meets with opposition from the Enemy, no matter what form it takes, or the period of history. Ezra recorded four different attempts to stop the work. First, Samaritan enemies of Benjamin and Judah tried to join the work force and to undermine the efforts. When this attempt failed, these enemies mounted a campaign of discouragement. Next the enemies of Israel wrote letters to Xerxes I (Ahasuerus) and his successor Artaxerxes I Longimanus (who later followed Cyrus, Cambyses and Darius I Hystaspes as successors to the throne of Persia). Finally force was even used. Work on the temple was stopped for 16 years (until 520 B.C.E.). Now in the second year of their coming to the house of God at Jerusalem, in the second month, Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel and Jeshua the son of Jozadak made a beginning, together with the rest of their brethren, the priests and the Levites and all who had come to Jerusalem from the captivity. They appointed the Levites, from twenty years old and upward, to have the oversight of the work of the house of the LORD. And Jeshua with his sons and his kinsmen, and Kadmiel and his sons, the sons of Judah, together took the oversight of the workmen in the house of God, along with the sons of Henadad and the Levites, their sons and kinsmen.”

We see they kept the festival of booth’s, but there is no mention of any harvest festivals indicating the land yielded much/any produce (consider part 2). In fact, there were times when they had to work with weapon in hand. If they had to buy supplies from neighboring lands, it is easy to assume they included food stuffs.
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Beowulf
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 01:50:35 PM »

Part 2    Daniel/Zechariah/Haggai/Historical Times and Dates

Daniel

1:1 “ In the third year of the kingship of Je•hoi'a•kim the king of Judah, Neb•u•chad•nez'zar the king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and proceeded to lay siege to it.”

2:1 “The book of Daniel states that it was in “the second year” of Nebuchadnezzar’s kingship (WTS states: probably counting from the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. and therefore actually referring to his 20th regnal year. Notice how the WTS straightens out Daniel’s inspired word, Daniel said it was Nebuchadnezzar’s 2nd year, WTS said it was probably his 20th year. Insight on the Scriptures book 2, page 481.

I choose to believe the inspired word over uninspired interpretation
.

9:1-3 “In the first year of Da•ri'us the son of A•has•u•e'rus of the seed of the Medes, who had been made king over the kingdom of the Chal•de'ans; 2 in the first year of his reigning I myself, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of the years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah the prophet, for fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, [namely,] seventy years. 3 And I proceeded to set my face to Jehovah the [true] God, in order to seek [him] with prayer and with entreaties, with fasting and sackcloth and ashes.”

Zechariah

1:7 “On the twenty-fourth day of the eleventh month, that is, the month She'bat, in the second year of Da•ri'us, the word of Jehovah occurred to Zech•a•ri'ah the son of Ber•e•chi'ah the son of Id'do the prophet, saying”
1:12-16 “So the angel of Jehovah answered and said: “O Jehovah of armies, how long will you yourself not show mercy to Jerusalem and to the cities of Judah, whom you have denounced these seventy years?”   
13 And Jehovah proceeded to answer the angel who was speaking with me, with good words, comforting words; 14 and the angel who was speaking with me went on to say to me: “Call out, saying, ‘This is what Jehovah of armies has said: “I have been jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with great jealousy. 15 With great indignation I am feeling indignant against the nations that are at ease; because I, for my part, felt indignant to only a little extent, but they, for their part, helped toward calamity.”’
16 “Therefore this is what Jehovah has said, ‘“I shall certainly return to Jerusalem with mercies. My own house will be built in her,” is the utterance of Jehovah of armies, “and a measuring line itself will be stretched out over Jerusalem.

Haggai 1:2-11

Haggai's exhortations delivered between August and December, 520 B.C.E. challenged the people to put the building of the temple above their own home building:

Thus says the LORD of hosts: "This people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the LORD." Then the word of the LORD came by Haggai the prophet, "Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins? Now therefore thus says the LORD of hosts: "Consider how you have fared. You have sown much, and harvested little; you eat, but you never have enough; you drink, but you never have your fill; you clothe yourselves, but no one is warm; and he who earns wages earns wages to put them into a bag with holes." Thus says the LORD of hosts: "Consider how you have fared. Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may appear in my glory, says the LORD. You have looked for much, and, lo, it came to little; and when you brought it home, I blew it away.

"Why?" says the LORD of hosts. "Because of my house that lies in ruins, while you busy yourselves each with his own house. Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce. And I have called for a drought upon the land and the hills, upon the grain, the new wine, the oil, upon what the ground brings forth, upon men and cattle, and upon all their labors."

Historical Times and Dates:
These are the kings and their periods of reigning from 539 B.C.E. back to the beginning of Nebuchadnezzar. This agrees with Bible chronology and historical evidence. This is in contrast, however, to WTS teachings which claim Nebuchadnezzar’s reign began in 624 B.C.E.    Why?      Add it up.
Nabonidus’s  Reign: 539 B.C.E. + (17 years) = 556 B.C.E.
Labashi-Marduk’s Reign: 556 B.C.E. + (9 months) = 556 B.C.E.
Neriglissar’s Reign: 556 B.C.E. + (4 years) = 560 B.C.E.
Evil-Merodach’s Reign: 560 B.C.E. + (2 years) = 562 B.C.E.
Nebuchadnezzar’s Reign: 562 B.C.E. + (43 years) = 605 B.C.E.
The Bible and secular history agree. Nebuchadnezzar’s reign began in 605 B.C.E. The WTS is missing 19-20 years. How else can we prove what is correct?  What the WTS cannot change; The Battle Of Charchemish.

There is no secular disputing or calling into question the year of the battle of Charchemish in 605 B.C.E. Jer. 46:2 confirms this battle occurred during Jehoiakim’s 4th year in power. (609 B.C.E. - 4 years is 605 B.C.E.) The WTS dates this battle at 625 B.C.E. I have yet to find any evidence presented by them, or any other source, which can support this.

“In 609 BC Necho rushed north to assist his former rivals, the Assyrians. His army would have to march through Judah if he were to engage the Babylonians. Judah's King Josiah decided to block the Egyptian advance even though Necho sent him a message that he only wanted to pass through the land and did not intend to attack Judah. Nevertheless, in the summer of 609 BC, on the plain of Mediggo, Josiah's troops attacked the Egyptian forces and were decisively defeated. Josiah was killed
in this battle.

Nabopolassar becomes king in Nov. 23, 626 B.C.E. and rules for 21 years to 605 B.C.E.

Nebuchadnezzar was born in 630 B.C.E.   Nabopolassar dies in 605 B.C.E.

If Nebuchadnezzar began his campaigns in 624 B.C.E., as the WTS asserts,  being born in 630, he would have been 6 years old. He would have also begun to rule 2 years after his father (not 21 years). If these are not the true dates for birth and reign, where is their proof?

Temple finished, 517/516 and dedicated in 515 B.C.E

When an individual states, “When history is in disagreement with the bible, the bible is always right.” I would agree with that. But when history and the bible agree, and someone’s theology disagrees, then that theology is in error.

Historical timeline and events considering 70 Years of desolation:

Nebuchadnezzar born in  B. C. 630

Nabopolassar becomes king  in B.C. 626

Babylonian dominion begins with the destruction of Nineveh and Harran  and the removal of the last Assyrian king Assur-uballit by Nabopolassar B.C. 609

Nabopolassar dies B.C. 605

Nebuchadnezzar, age 25, becomes king and defeats Egyptian forces at the battle of Charchemish B.C. 605

Jehoiakim reigns from B.C. 608-B.C. 597

Nebuchadnezzar replaces him with Zedekiah in B.C. 597

Babylon destroys Jerusalem in  B.C. 587

Cyrus defeats the Babylonian army and fulfills 70 years of prophecy pronounced on the king of Babylon B.C. 539 and decrees the return of the Jews to rebuild the temple.

70 years of fulfilled B.C. 609- B.C. 539 (2 Chron. 36:20,22; Jer. 25:12 Jer. 29:10) Babylonian King called to account. Babylonian dominion is over.

A remnant returns to Jerusalem. B.C 537

Darius I becomes king B.C. 521

Daniel discerns the 70 years of desolations, which are ongoing in his, Zechariah’s, and Haggai’s day. B.C. 521-519 (2 Chron. 36:21,23)

Temple is completed and the enemies contending with the Jews, in their work, are suppressed by Darius’ intervention B.C. 517.

70 Years of desolation and temple destruction & completion fulfilled. B.C. 587- B.C. 517 (Haggai 1:2-11 Psalm 79:10, Zechariah 1:7, 12-16)

Temple officially dedicated in B.C. 515

C.T. Russell and the WTS are off on their chronology 3-20 years respectively. They may claim special insight, but saying they have credible evidence, and providing it, are two different things. They cannot change birth dates, dates of reign, and dates of battles.

History and scripture are compatible. It only gets in the way of inventive theology, for some.

Reference material:
http://www.dinur.org/1.html?rsID=219
http://www.touregypt.net/hdyn26.htm
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/
http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronology/canon.html
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/historic_periods.php

Ptolemy's Canon, Nabonidus Cylinder, B.M. Cuneiform 21946, And Various Encyclopedia's.

Beowulf

« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 01:46:03 AM by Beowulf » Logged
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